Raven Wing
Raven Wing WHAT? :(

David Silva
David Silva Seems a fitting comment

David Reich Chadwick shared a link.
See original DRC Personal post at Facebook
October 6 ·

CUKENEW.BLOGSPOT.COM
Edward Brown Banned!
Notes on cuke.com an archival site on the life and world of Shunryu Suzuki and those who knew him. Home to Crooked Cucumber Archives (Cuke Project)
98 Comments
12 Shares
52 emoji comments - sad, shocked
Lynne Brakeman
Lynne Brakeman Thank you for sharing this. Wow! I can't believe it!! I was lucky enough to attend several events led by Roshi Brown here in Ohio. He is a marvelous teacher. This seems to be a really sad misunderstanding. I hope for the best.
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Michael Sierchio
Michael Sierchio "As a queer woman and a survivor of sexual violence..."

Leading with identity and claiming authority from it is bollocks.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson I just read various letters in correspondence and to be frank, my feelings about Ed have always been pretty neutral...neither important or unimportant in my many years practicing at ZCSF: The treatment of Ed however strikes me as bizarre, cold, impersonal but familiar to me personally when I consider the troika that wrote the letter banning him from any involvement with ZCSF.

Consider the troika, headed up by Linda-Ruth...Oy!

It is apparent that the rather puritanical element defining some of the interpersonal dynamics
Of the 70’s was then worrisome and it made me wonder if ZCSF was the place to practice Zen or not? I decided to stick it out for many years. Ironically, this ‘element’ of intolerance did not diminish...
It grew, all be it gradually.
As long as there was some refuge from this tendency the place was endurable. There was even room for occasional levity, brilliance, creativity and insight. Don’t get me wrong...this experience was as wonderful as it was transformative. We were at our best generous and compassionate with one another. I do think that Ed on occasion made his own contributions to that positive and transformative experience...even in his most difficult moments! He was always human and transpatent.

So it seems that this weird little cabal has had time to fester, ferment and enough time to grow into the nasty, morally superior, fetid, waging fistula of rectitude that we have today! I wish that I could say that i am surprised that this could happen. I am not surprised.

It seems that it is time for some serious self reflection here. It is apparent that Ed is more than capable here but given my memories of Linda Ruth and her troika...I am not so confident in ZCSF as an organization mustering up a little mutuality here.

How about a little reciprosity here?

In any case, it’s times like these that I am reminded of how pleased that I am to be so many, many miles away.
BEST OF LUCK!
Bob.
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Kirk Rhoads
Kirk Rhoads While I find your perceptions a little on the harsh side, they are mostly accurate. Because my deeply religious, Christian Mother always forgave my alcoholic, philandering Father, I found it innately easy to forgive Baker-roshi. Perhaps they could learn some Christian forgiveness there, and it might soften that puritanical strain.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Kirk Rhoads nice thoughts and they are positively instructive. Compassion is important here. With all due respect, it’s the embodiment of a crypto-Christian, puritanical morality in the person of Linda-Ruth and her minions that is the problem here...

Still...you may be right...most Christians probably do have a capacity for forgiveness...
Perhaps it would be more accurate to think of Linda-Ruth and the troika as
GODDAMN CALVINISTS!
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Anéla Grama
Anéla Grama No body should throw SHIT around as even in the temples of old, the practioner was not perfect as to why we study our breath and question what MU is all about so all fellow zen students new and old must remember even BUDDHA said we are not perfect and thus Roshi E Brown is as blameless as Roshi Baker before him and just do zazen in order to clear the muddy human minds...
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Harriet Chino
Harriet Chino Pretty much what one would expect from organized religion with it's hierarchy and desire for power. If Ed was strong and self confident he would tell SFZC to kiss his ass and strike out on his own. SFZC was and still is a cult.
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Anéla Grama
Anéla Grama Unreal and seemingly unfair to judge this old friend whom i met when the zen center was on Bush street in the beginning and also at Tassajara....we are ALL imperfect fellow sentient beings. Holding hands in a ring, i vow to ease the pain in the ring of breath around the world via Roshi R. Aitken
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson On second thought, I am surprised that this relatively mild incident got past the CC to Reb and you know exactly what I am talking about.

I mean WHAT? Is this sanctimonious or what?

Tell Linda Ruth and company to take a bromo and let off a little of that raw methane!
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David Reich Chadwick


Basya Petnick
Basya Petnick I sat with Ed at Green Gulch in early September. It was a beautiful and memorable day. Ed is a unique and authentic person, one of the more creative and brilliant among us. The complaint lodged against him was clearly specious. The dismissal of Ed Brown as a teacher at Zen Center is a crime against zen humanity. My heart goes out to all concerned.
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Shamsul Bahari
Shamsul Bahari AH Soh! My teacher and good friend who accepted me unconditionally despite my 'unzennish' ways! Ed it is not a surprise to see that some crap never change even in the Zen schools; our way or the Highway. You were never a team player,but nor were you a hypocrite either! You told your stories as it is and sometimes the bones are too hard to chew, we all live and learn, I was kicked out of Zen Center, but not banned from...hee hee!
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Brian Howlett
Brian Howlett Really?!
When has Zen become so Politically Correct?
I missed that memo.
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Anjin Bodhisattva
Anjin Bodhisattva Oh, it has.
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Brian Howlett
Brian Howlett Believe me, I know.
It’s one of many of life’s ironies.
I was attracted to zen for its physicality balanced by intellect. Historically it’s a very vibrant rigorous practice.
Since the 80’s it has been overrun by psychotherapists who have turned it into a coddling self help program.
Zen suffers for it, is handicapped by it.
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Brian Howlett
Brian Howlett As a zen teacher I refuse to soft peddle zen. Students come and go, mostly go. No problemo.
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Anjin Bodhisattva
Anjin Bodhisattva I listened to the so-called offensive quotes, and feel sorry for anyone who bought into the lineage.
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Brian Howlett
Brian Howlett Personally I might feel sorry for anyone locked into an oppressive culture but I don’t respect those, especially leaders that would acquiesce to a paper tiger.
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Anjin Bodhisattva
Anjin Bodhisattva This is the sort of thing that makes me want to dissociate from the mahasangha, paper tiger or not.
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Anjin Bodhisattva
Anjin Bodhisattva Also, it's what is known as reaping a whirlwind.
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Brian Howlett
Brian Howlett I’ve had more than one potential student say they would like to study with me except for the connection to contemporary Birkenstock American Zen.
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Axel Kratel
Axel Kratel Brian Howlett ZC most likely has to protect the income stream coming from all those fragile "students" that can't own their own feelings and projections. God forbid a teacher triggers them. It's all about money, if they didn't have income to defend it might be different. Listen to the recording, Ed's really funny, he immediately cuts to the heart of the matter, exposing the materialist mindset, but the silence in the room is deafening, these people are so entranced in spiritual materialism they don't get it at all. The only guy laughing is Ed. If I was Ed I'd run from that place.
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Brian Howlett
Brian Howlett Thanks Axel. I get it and agree.
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Brian Howlett
Brian Howlett Here’s the irony.
Ed’s book helped put ZC on the map.
It’s the story told through The Tassajara Bread Book that captured the imagination of a huge audience. The impact of that book continues to this day. Ed put sourdough and whole-wheat together. That combination fuels the progressive bread movement today. The idea that healthy food could be delicious was huge and Ed received a considerable amount of the public’s attention and appreciation for that idea.
That public recognition made way for Tassajara Bakery, Greens, Green Gulch Farm and it drove a lot of people to the Tassajara Retreat Center.
Anyone in marketing would love to leverage Ed’s contribution to healthy delicious food. His work would be the highlight of any institution that wanted to thrive.
It’s good for Ed to be separated from an organization that doesn’t understand or appreciate his talent and cultural worth. He can claim it as his own which indeed it is.
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David Reich Chadwick Brian Howlett Hey! I like my Birks!
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Brian Howlett
Brian Howlett Hey David, who knew what signal we were sending with our Birkenstocks? Apparently “aging hippie”.
Florence Caplow
Florence Caplow Brian Howlett, respectfully, when did you last sit a winter practice period at Tassajara Zen Mountain Center? If it's been recently, and you can still say that it's a "coddling self help program" or "Birkenstock Zen," well then, you are can pat yourself on the back as being truly hard core. If it has not been recently, or ever, you might consider whether you have all the information to make such an "observation".
Brian Howlett
Brian Howlett Thanks Florence, I guess you told me something or other.




David Carlson
David Carlson Seems to be a reaction to what was heard not to what was said.
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Neil J. Rubenking
Neil J. Rubenking Two VERY different things.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson And the crypto-puritanical under girding of ZCSF. Sadly it seems this is more prominent these days.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson I still don’t get how this letter passed the smell test in the CC
“gun slinger” Reb Anderson.
Give me a break!
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Kai Harper Leah
Kai Harper Leah Sorry to read this Ed. As was the case when I came to ZC there was always a group that were the favored folks. Even back then it didn't seem like you fit in. I felt like I didn't fit in either, I think so, so many of us felt that way. I am sorry that this is still happening, certainly (if you want to be there) there must be a way that doesn't completely compromise you. How many years have you been at ZC? I'm thinking around 50 at least. It seems so terrible to be cast out at this time in your practice.
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Liz Wolf-Spada
Liz Wolf-Spada More than 50. I met Ed when Tassajara opened for the first training period in July, 1967.
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Larry Hansen
Larry Hansen Likewise,used to sit next to him when he often tried to break the rock zendo walls with his head. Silas, Doug, Ed and I shared the cabin across the path from Roshi’s during the first practice period. He is Zen Center through and through
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Joe Cohen
Joe Cohen The only thing that Ed is likely to be guilty of is being cranky. Lichen’s letter was thoughtful and respectful of the facts and those involved.
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Mark Bittner
Mark Bittner I've never been part of Zen Center, but have been watching it from the distance for a long time. I've passed through a few times and have felt embarrassed every time by what I've seen—people wearing the costumes, adopting the pose, sipping tea, and talking the talk, but only playing at Zen.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Hey Mark, your wife and my wife worked on a couple of films together...

There were some pluses about the place back in the 70’s...not sure about now...
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Joe Cohen
Joe Cohen In traditional Buddhist cultures monks only remain in the monastery for a few years and then leave to engage the larger community. Those who remain in the monastery have no advantage over those who do not. (Suzuki Roshi said, “Don’t think you’re superior because you’re in the Zendo in the morning and your spouse is in bed.”)
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Harriet Chino
Harriet Chino Joe Cohen, And I don't think that Shunryu Suzuki ever intended for people to spend their entire lives in one of the 3 "Zen centers". For, as you say, that is certainly not the Japanese experience. Students moved into SFZC in October, 1969. Suzuki died 2 years later in December, 1971. Things might have been very different if he had lived another 20 or 25 years into his 80s. Of course, Dick Baker needed his supporting cast of slaves to maintain his lifestyle and so people remained attached by the umbilical cord to Zen Center for their entire lives.
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Mark Bittner
Mark Bittner Robert Anderson What's your wife's name?
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Oy! What a way to spend a lifetime.
Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Mark Bittner Christine Wynne...
Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Stanford Dept. Of Communications aka Independent Documentary Film Masters Program.
Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson I know that Chris asked your wife to work with her on her film
“39, Single And Pregnant”
...oh, it just occurred to me, your wife’s name:
Judy Irving.
Mark Bittner
Mark Bittner Robert Anderson Yes. She remembers the film very well. She said it was "depressing." (The story, that is. Not the film itself.)
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Bob Gesell
Bob Gesell It sometimes seems like a bunch of Cub Scouts playing at being Indians.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Mark Bittner yes Mark, that is exactly how Chris felt about the finished product. This was her masters thesis...she admired Judy’s approach...allowing the narrative to emerge on its own initiative with the film maker getting the hell out of the way and allowing the story to discover its own voice. The film makers attitude is to discover the genius inherent in the subject. Pretty high standard as a film maker... Any way, I think she saw that in Judy and when Chris finally took me out to some of her films...I could see it too.

To be fair to Chris...not all subjects have equal potential...the tough thing in Chris’ student film is that it turned out pretty somber...tough indeed!

Any way...a real pleasure to meet you Mark!
Mark Bittner
Mark Bittner Robert Anderson The pleasure is mutual.



Lichen Brown
Lichen Brown Thank you David for posting the letters and audio recordings of the event on your website. I think people need to know about what happened.
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Brooks Prouty
Brooks Prouty Well said, Lichen. Very good letter! Saludos a su padre!!
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Michael Paffen
Michael Paffen Thank you Lichen🙏🏻 Please send my best wishes to Ed
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Harriet Chino
Harriet Chino What really struck me in Lichen Brown's letter was her noting that "Growing up at Zen Center, even as a small child, I knew that Zen Center was a place where broken people come to heal". I always noted that too, though I think her phrasing was a very lovely, poetic way of talking about Spiritual Bypassing. https://robertmasters.com/2013/04/29/spiritual-bypassing/ I would say that this phrase, this concept, this emotional behavior pertains to probably about 90% of the people who come to Zen Center or who stayed at Zen Center throughout their lives. Frankly, it always puzzled me why people would choose to heal at such a place. I knew several of the original Japanese Zen priests and the Tibetan teacher Trungpa, Rimpoche. None of them had any training as psychotherapists and were really totally unequipped for what came their way. There were students who committed suicide. My late, ex husband, Kobun Chino, had the wonderful gift of truly being able to focus his attention and listen to people intently. It was a great gift to his students. However, he definitely was not a psychotherapist. And what so many students needed was either a good psychotherapist or, at least, a good life coach to assist them in healing and in becoming fully self actualized. I don't view spending one's entire life at Zen Center (any Zen Center) as becoming fully self actualized. As Mark Bittner said in his comment, "people wearing the costumes, adopting the pose, sipping tea, and talking the talk, but only playing at Zen." It's called cultural appropriation and it is a way of "using spiritual practices and beliefs to avoid dealing with our painful feelings, unresolved wounds, and developmental needs." My thanks for this quote to Robert Masters, PhD.

ROBERTMASTERS.COM
Spiritual Bypassing | Robert Augustus Masters, PhD
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James Kenney
James Kenney I sat once with Kobun Chu=ino.
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Maria Christoff
Maria Christoff Well put Harriet. I am a big admirer of Robert Masters and his discriptions have been revelatory. Last year I listend to a webinar on Spirituality and psychotherapy from Sounds True - he was one of the presenters.
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Harriet Chino
Harriet Chino Thanks Maria Christoff. The sad thing to me has always been that the many people who used religion to bypass their psycho emotional problems then 1) never really resolved those problems and 2) never had the chance to become fully self actualized. A few years ago I looked into a Vipassana 10 day sitting here in Hawaii. Their website said, unequivocally that people wanting to sit the 10 days should FIRST resolve any of their psychological problems and then after that was done, join a retreat. Not to expect that the retreat would help resolve those problems.
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James Kenney
James Kenney Harriet Chino I agree. I had 10 years of psychotherapy for child abuse, while I was also sitting zazen at BZC. The two are both necessary if a person suffers from emotional problems.

Retreats can help people resolve their emotional issues if that person also is getting adequate psychotherapy.

I admired your husband, though I only met him once.
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Harriet Chino
Harriet Chino Kobun was a kind man and a really great listener. Being a great listener, though, does not make one a great psychotherapist. Child abuse is an unspeakable horror in my mind. I'm glad to know that you used both to help yourself. I certainly hope that it has helped to resolve that trauma for you. I think that trauma (especially from such an early age) is difficult to resolve adequately. As I have aged, I have also come into contact with the people who do "energy healing" and I think that it can be quite helpful for many. My closest woman friend, a woman from Denmark, is such a healer.
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James Kenney
James Kenney Harriet Chino I'm doing well now, thank you. Most of the time. It never really goes away completely. PTSD can be brutal. I was "triggered" by the Kavanaugh hearings and confirmation and that was awful.

You seem like a nice person. I'm going to send you a friend request. :)
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Harriet Chino
Harriet Chino I am a nice person, on alternate Sundays.🤣
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Ruth Friend
Ruth Friend Jeeze. After all this time can’t you just sit down and have a cup of tea? Maybe the new student wasn’t ready for Browns kind of humor. Maybe Brown needs to check himself. In any case is this reason for expulsion? Really???
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Michael Paffen
Michael Paffen WTF...I read all the presented information, heard the audio but I still do not get it. Realy? Banning Ed makes me wonder If I will continue being a member of the SFZC...hm...Maybe I am over reacting. gotta rethink🙏🏻
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Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell While I hesitate to reply, as these matters are not usually handled well on such an abbreviated platform, I call attention to part of the letter from the SFZC leadership that says: “Over the years there have been many concerns voiced by students, those attending your retreats and lectures, and teachers, about your deportment from the dharma seat. In the past, you have been informed about a number of these complaints, which Zen Center has needed to respond to on your behalf.”

In other words, this is not the first time Ed’s words and way of expressing himself have had an upsetting impact on people who attended one of his events. It is also not the first instance that Ed has been given feedback.
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Brooks Prouty
Brooks Prouty Susan O'Connell If one were to measure the positive impact of Ed's teaching against these other instances, which would be preponderant? We all know the answer. There are no rules about effective teaching, which transcends words, anyway. Ed's words may have sometimes missed the mark but I guarantee that his heart has always been in the right place. Can the same be said of his detractors? This was a flawed decision. I hope ZC will review it and reverse itself.
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Michael Paffen
Michael Paffen Thank you for your comments🙏🏻It helps me while reconsidering and evaluating the presented informations about Ed Browns misbehaving. Warm bows🙏🏻
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Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell Brooks Prouty, I have been reading your posts on facebook for a while now. It has been quite a while since you have been a resident, and you should know that, as with all things, the awareness of the effects of misguided speech has been heightened here. The priest group that I am a part of at city center has been studying how to work with traumatized people. As Lichen said in her very skillful post, many people who come to SFZC, or any Zen Center for that matter, are traumatized. I certainly was. Perhaps you were too? In this situation, when giving a public dharma talk, it is important that we are very, very aware of the content and tone of our words. Over time, with feedback, we can better see how our own wounds tend to color our speech, and we can heighten our vigilance. This is not PC, as you suggested, but doing our best to follow the precepts and the admonition around “right speech”. No one would deny the benefit that Ed’s teaching has provided over these many years, nor his intention to be helpful. However, we all need to continue to learn, and be able to receive feedback. The lack of peer feedback in the past led to much pain and many people hurt.
We are are group of senior people, looking to support other senior people to be the best dharma teachers we can be. You will also notice that this decision was supported by Ed’s preceptor, Mel.
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Michael Paffen
Michael Paffen Susan O'Connell Thank you for taking your time reading my posts and your Comment aswell. I see what you mean and the decision for banning Ed was not an easy one I guess. Again I have to say: "Thank you for your comments🙏🏻It helps me while reconsidering and evaluating the presented informations about Ed Browns misbehaving. Warm bows" Please continue to take good care of this precious sangha. It means a lot to me and so many others I am sure of.
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Lasse Loske
Lasse Loske strong feedback
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Brooks Prouty
Brooks Prouty Susan O'Connell Right speech is certainly enshrined in practice but what it entails is subject to interpretation for most of us, including the senior teachers of SFZC. Working with traumatized people is commendable, on the surface, but as an ad hoc effort is it any different than other outreach target like prisoners? Zen Center always had a penchant for these groups as if working with normal practitioners weren’t sufficient. At what point do such efforts run the risk of engulfing the broader mission and practice, which, frankly, seems to have happened here? If so, why should people who suffer trauma receive so much attention? Perhaps it runs against the practice of SFZC — and zen teaching. It’s quite possible that a focus like that would interfere with the big mission and potential for impact since such people have special needs and require special attention. It’s one thing if they come to practice but another if practice comes to them. Trauma is a broad term and many people claim it for themselves. But it’s also just a more extreme version of what every practitioner has to come terms with in his or her life — it is different by degree from other hardships but not different in kind. The practice doesn’t change and the practice shouldn’t be diluted to serve parochial interests. It is my perception that ZC always found the paradigm and vocabulary of therapy accessible — perhaps more so than that of traditional zen practice, at times. Therapy still has its value but what zen aspires to do is vastly bigger than any form of therapy, which can be a great stepping stone to practice, but is not the same as zen practice. Therapy easily fits into zen, moreover, as a child’s foot fits into her mother’s shoe, but Zen does not fit into therapy anymore than a mother’s foot into her daughter’s shoe. Reading through this episode, one naturally asks whether SFZC is doing Big T Therapy (ie, Dogen Zen) or merely small t therapy (ie, Freud (and his imitators’) Zen). I refrain from knowing the answer to that important question as it’s been many years since I was a student at Tassajara, which was generally promoting Big T, focused on zazen and dokusan/practice sessions, study of self/other, work, appreciation for the wildness of its environs. However, back to Ed. When he or anyone speaks there are many registers that are hit, usually after small talk and observational humor geared to building rapport. Now you are raising the stakes on speech and you are whether you mean to or not making that journey fraught for the sake of some “traumatized” individual, who may in fact never have belonged there in the first place. As a post-script, I just heard the two offending excerpts from Ed's talk. Give me a break, Susan. If that's all this is about, that's utterly pathetic!
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Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell Brooks Prouty as I said earlier in this chain: While I hesitate to reply, as these matters are not usually handled well on such an abbreviated platform, I call attention to part of the letter from the SFZC leadership that says: “Over the years there have been many concerns voiced by students, those attending your retreats and lectures, and teachers, about your deportment from the dharma seat. In the past, you have been informed about a number of these complaints, which Zen Center has needed to respond to on your behalf.”

In other words, this is not the first time Ed’s words and way of expressing himself have had an upsetting impact on people who attended one of his events. It is also not the first instance that Ed has been given feedback.
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Brooks Prouty
Brooks Prouty Susan O'Connell I appreciate the point you are stressing (past complaints) but given that this action as described by SFZC has absolutely no basis in reality (there is nothing in his talk of a remotely offensive nature) it makes it impossible to credit the opinion that he fell afoul in the past. I'm sorry but there is no other conclusion. It just looks bad for ZC and Linda Ruth Cutts in particular as persecuting someone for opaque (probably political) reasons (one assumes in the absence of more evidence) who has dedicated his life to building ZC and whose name is synonymous with ZC.
Susanne Fairfax
Susanne Fairfax · 6 mutual friends
Brooks Prouty if you found nothing offensive that does not mean there is nothing offensive. The person who raised the issue found them offensive. I found them offensive. Susan O'Connell thank you for your voice here. 🙏
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Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell thank you
Florence Caplow
Florence Caplow Brooks Prouty, calling Linda Ruth Cutts Weintraub a "persecutor" - really? You know her, I assume, since you and I practiced together at Zen Center - do you really think she would be anything but exquisitely careful and fair? The Zen teacher and abbess I know is a long way from a persecutor. I hope we can be careful with language that is charged and coming from a place of little direct knowledge of a situation that must, for many reasons, be at least partially confidential. This whole process on Facebook is an example of triangulation. Rather than Ed going directly to the Zen Center elders, who are his peers, or responding to their requests to have a conversation, his friend David is posting on Facebook and whipping up "support" (I don't know if this was his intention) from people who know little of the long history between an iconoclastic teacher and an institution that must balance many concerns. But I do know that direct communication is the bravest and most powerful way forward. Marshaling social media for support, without direct communication, does not, to me, look like the actions of right speech and action.
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Brooks Prouty
Brooks Prouty Florence Caplow I did not call her a persecutor. Please read more closely what I actually wrote. However, I stand by the opinion that the optics of this looks quite bad for ZC, in general, and for "the Abbots Executive Group of Zen Center (Abbatial leadership, Chair of the Board, Tassajara Abiding Teacher, Officers, and HR.)," per letter to Ed, in particular. Evidently, from the comments of others here, I'm not alone in that perception. It's revealing, perhaps, that you yourself retreat to an opaque backstory for defense of this decision. It suggests that the non-opaque history fails the sniff test for you, too. Net-net, this decision was not an appropriate response. (Moreover, the underlying complaint is such a load of rubbish. Whoever produced it should be totally ashamed of themselves [sic].)



Harriet Chino
Harriet Chino Ultimately, I should think Ed would see this as a blessing--when one is closed, many more will open.
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Harriet Chino
Harriet Chino When one door is closed many more will open. I am a hopeless little old lady.
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Stephen Zenki Salad
Stephen Zenki Salad · 18 mutual friends
But apparently a very wise one...Gassho



Lasse Loske
Lasse Loske Very sad....
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Brooks Prouty
Brooks Prouty I could delve into this but why bother? Ed has a ton of credit in the bank and has contributed far more to Zen Center since the last sixties than Linda Ruth Cutts or the rest of the triumvirate, who all owe Ed a huge debt of gratitude. Ed Brown is a damn good man and first rate teacher. He is a profound teacher who sees through the veneer of the PC bs and Bay Area nonsense. I'm sure he is saying Is that so? He's bettter off without ZC if this is ZC's disposition now. Well done, Ed!
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Michael Paffen
Michael Paffen Thank you David for posting. Why did the SFZC not inform its donating members? Why did I have to get to know something important like that via Facebook? 🙁Thanks again and all the best🙏🏻
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Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer
Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer Michael Paffen because the internet is faster than other means of communication. Lichen Brown posted first. Now we are reacting. I've known both Linda Ruth and Ed for 45+ years. Linda is not as portrayed by some angry people. People are projecting their own issues on this event. I think it may be a mistake to ban Ed, it is also a mistake to vilify Linda.
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Michael Paffen
Michael Paffen Yes, I totally agree. We all have to be very carefull not to fall into extrems. Banning someone is extrem. I on the other hand did not vilify anybody and I think nobody else should fall into this dualistic trap. I am concerned that a worldwide renowned Zen-Teacher / Writer and early student of Suzuki Shunryū gets banned from the SFZC and this very importend (and shocking) news is not communicated and explained to donating members like me. I feel a strong connection to the sangha even though I live on the other side of the pond. I learned a lot as a guest student in 2016 + 2017 and I am looking foward next year, returning as a guest.Besides this case and wether the banning was right or not, I feel sad how the SFZC handles this.
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Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer
Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer There may more than meets the eye. Did you see Susan O'Connells post?
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Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer
Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer Michael Paffen I did not think you were being negative but some seem to be looking for an excuse to vent.
Michael Paffen
Michael Paffen Yes I did read her post, Ed's letter and most of the other material. All the lines and between them. Everybody is loosing...Or so it seems. I hope SFZC will reconsider there decision or at least make it more transparent to the ones supporting the centre. A letter to the members would be o good thing. I am sure they are doing all this with there best intentions...Sometimes "The way to the hell is paved with good intentions" or so they say. Ed has good intentions, did not react to serveral "wake up calls" and got banned, SFZC has good intentions in banning him and are criticized by people like me, that do not have all the informations there decision to bann Ed is based on and you have the best intentions as well. There is defenitly "More than meets the eye" as you say...Again I totally agree with and whish all the best for all of us🙏
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David Silva
David Silva Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer where?

David Reich Chadwick Yes Elizabeth - all the players in this are good people doing what they think is right. But I think they didn't listen to Ed's talks that day because it's sort of embarrassing to do so and then read that they wanted him to come meet with a panel of six on the abbots committee about the complaint. I've gone over prior emails with Ed too and keep expecting to find something dreadful but only him getting fed up which is understandable. They seem to be uncomfortable with Ed's attitude and lack of remorse - for what? Gee - married people get mad at each other and say angry things and make love a few hours later. Gotta go to sleep.
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David Reich Chadwick Oh - Just posted two 2 minute audio excerpts with the offending stories - listen and scratch your head.
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Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer
Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer  I'm not saying people are bad, I'm saying some are venting, projecting, harshly judging, condemning with a bias.
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Jeffrey Trotter
Jeffrey Trotter David eds letter works for me. Simple and clear
Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer
Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer David Silva Just my opinion. What is troubling to me may not be troubling to you.
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David Silva
David Silva I think we should start a letter campaign to SFZC. Unfortunately right now all my campaign energy is going to the mid-term elections.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley I made the mistake of mentioning that Dan Welsh sent me to SFZC to study Dogen and Suzuki Roshi. Ooops!
Wow, did I get shit on! Lol!
So I studied SR and Dogen, discovered Zazen. Good thing. Opened my eyes.
But . . . . it wasn’t long before I got caught in a sex scandal. I laugh!
Good food anyway.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley The abbot took my notes on Suzuki Roshi and copyrighted them and then fired the librarian. We all know what happened next.
I still cry about that.
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Liz Wolf-Spada
Liz Wolf-Spada I have been too unaware for too long. No, I missed that episode.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley A short while later "Not Always So" was published! That was my favorite Suzuki Roshi saying. Lol.
Whenever a zen teacher would say something I would say Not Always So.
Like that monk that imitated his Master and got his finger cut off.

"Maybe so, but not always so."
Suzuki Roshi
5/27/70
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Terry Davis
Terry Davis It doesn't seem that hard to work this out.! First a "little straw over the mud" and face to face talking. Ed has given so much over the years, that he is owed the respect of real communication.(emails are not) SFZC needs to be careful not to just "allow" people who are mild and conform to a certain idea. Don't eliminate wild mind or big heart in the interest of being "politically correct". Look deeper.
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Florence Caplow
Florence Caplow If you read what happened, the letter states clearly that they have tried to engage him in conversation repeatedly and he has refused. I assume that it is the truth.
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David Silva
David Silva One way to voice our protest is to withhold donations and send letter saying why.
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David Silva
David Silva Making Linda Ruth the villian is not correct. As the overall Abbott it is herjob ti sign the letter.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Well, David, you are certainly entitled to your opinion but it does not seem that this event would have unfolded without her initiative. “SOFT PEDDLING” her letter is not how this thing “cycled” it’s way through the upper echelons of the organization.

Indeed, the very procedures, to process issues of deep concern around Zen Center that are sanctioned by leaders like Linda Ruth would effectively render any strong descenting rhetoric impotent. The very same castrating communication that she used on Ed would be applied to
descenters. Is there any reason to believe otherwise David? If you believe that this is not the case, then please tell me. Zen center has a long history of this type
of ‘social’ control : i. e.; e. g. “Could you please find some other way to say that?” ...clearly the best response to this exercise in rhetorical control is “NO”, “PLEASE TAKE IT AS IT IS, FRESH AND STRAIGHT UP”! There is no ambiguity here. It is appropiate to express displeasure with the nature of the letter and those who composed it in a nonambigious fashion.

After all, the rhetorical delivery to Ed was plenty ‘fresh and straight up’!

The last point that I would make includes an attempt to get the attention of the people that sanctioned this letter. Please forgive me if the tone is a little raw and provocative...

...I honest don’t doubt that Ed may have made a pho-pa on more than one occasion. He appears to be contrite and more than willing to work on his mode of communications. I trust that he is genuinely sincere and invested in changing his behaviors. Ed explicitly says so!

How is it that this is not an acceptable gesture to initiate some REAL DIALOGUE?

After all...Linda Ruth did circulate (CC) the
letter to Reb for his approval. I was astounded that this letter passed his smell test given that Reb himself in the past had engaged in far more elaborate and dangerous behaviors that seriously endangered the lives of others.

Reb was not banished from Zen Center...So tell me David, you don’t get the stench of hypocrisy here?

How did this letter get past
“GUN-SLINGER REB”?
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Maria Christoff
Maria Christoff Robert Anderson my sentiment exactly!
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Anjin Bodhisattva
Anjin Bodhisattva Oh hell no. As Abbott it is her job to have a vision and take responsibility.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Anjin Bodhisattva Hahaha...”...Oh hell no...” is exactly right Anjin!
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson I just can’t get past Reb Anderson’s gun play as one among many ‘low bars”, none of which required “banishment”.

Baker’s banishment is probably the single case where it was a good idea to force him out but none of these instances are as minor a transgression of the one Ed is being accused of.



Gene Foley
Gene Foley If there was anything I learned at ZC beyond Dogen it would be . . . . . ? I am struggling here! Lol! . . . . people are people! As soon as we start thinking . . . . all hell breaks loose! When you know that, you expect mud to pure mud.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley How much of this is connected to the national hysteria over the supreme court sex scandal etc etc? ZC is proof that . . . . What? Women should be banned from from the zendo because it excites the men? Maybe so!
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Stephen Zenki Salad
Stephen Zenki Salad · 18 mutual friends
More that hetero men shud be banned from the Zendo because they are inflamed by women...how does that grab you?
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Lol! So true!
I got a nose like a hound dog!! Pheromones!!
Girls smell good!
Gene Foley
Gene Foley My Zen Teacher sat me across from a woman and told me to watch her to learn Orioki. Unfortunately he did not inform her and she took deep offense to me watching her. She almost spit in my face.
When I asked my Zen teacher who she is and why is she attacking me, he sneered at me and said she already has a boyfriend. Then he turned his back on me and walked away. After that I was considered that asshole.
Fine with me! I came there to study Dogen! Lol.
Stephen Zenki Salad
Stephen Zenki Salad · 18 mutual friends
Gene Foley And left as a cheese-dog, apparently.
Gene Foley
Gene Foley Whatever. So what is a cheese dog? Am I being insulted?



Gene Foley
Gene Foley To say something exists is easy.
It is difficult to say something doesn't exist.
If you want to deny something, it is very difficult.
If you want to say that something does not exist,
you have to prove everything from every angle.
It is almost impossible to deny something .
So maybe we shouldn't. It is better not to.
Suzuki Roshi
8/4/71
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Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman I'm not here to kvetch about Zen Center or to mock "PC" or anything else but to say: I'm queer, and have many trans friends, and while I understand where the letter-writer was coming from, I think banning Ed over the remarks I hear on the tape is an extreme overreaction.
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Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman I knew Ed was a straight guy who was kind of clueless about gender politics when I was 19. It didn't affect my practice with him and I learned a lot from him. I'm 60 now and feel the same way.
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Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman The salient point, I think, is to determine how much of this banning was the result of those particular remarks and how much of it came from previous issues mentioned in the Abbot's letter. If these remarks were the straw that broke the camel's back, that's something to consider. If not, I think the decision should be thoughtfully reversed.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley I wouldn't recommend ZC to anyone. Gender politics! I had a Zen teacher warn me that Japanese monasteries are very gay. She knows I have a strong aversion to being "touched" by men. I finally had a gay man at ZC grab me and stick his tongue in my mouth. Yuck! What is interesting is my zen practice has given me the ability to empathize with him. The guy has a sex issue. I don't. His problem, not mine. Sorry.
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Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman I don't think your posts are helping, Gene, sorry.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Maybe empathize is the wrong word. Compassion is more accurate.
Gene Foley
Gene Foley Thats why I don't go to ZC!
My ignorance is considered a statement!

No more Zen for me
I think it is time to flee
Too sexy for me!
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Stephen Zenki Salad
Stephen Zenki Salad · 18 mutual friends
Gene Foley, your issues are very much on display...And not the first time.
Albert Batista
Albert Batista So some Tranny had an issue over how it interpreted a remark in a Dharma Talk, and Edward Brown's career is over?? Wow.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Everything changes! This could be the beginning of something new.
An eye opener!
I wonder why Ed was not allowed to defend himself. If he was wrongly accused and convicted, his accuser is headed for a karmic disaster.
Or maybe this is the karmic disaster!
Just sayin
Susanne Fairfax
Susanne Fairfax · 6 mutual friends
Albert Batista this is seriously problematic. ^ David Reich Chadwick do you really want speech like this on your page? “Tranny” “it” ?
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Stephen Zenki Salad
Stephen Zenki Salad · 18 mutual friends
Albert Batista Hmmm...really???? Really! Are you really a practicing Zen Buddhist? Your remarks would indicate otherwise.
Albert Batista
Albert Batista Susanne Fairfax What a sad and pathetic place the Zen Center must be. I doubt Shunryu Suzuki would recognize the bureaucracy that has been created as his legacy. You are horrible people in the name of Buddhism...
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Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman Blocking Albert Batista. I see crap like this all day -- I don't need to see the most amateur, coarse, crude version of it in a thread related to Zen Center.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Please block me too! Poor Suzuki Roshi! What wild delusional train wreck!
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Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman Sure, Gene. Will do.
Albert Batista
Albert Batista Gene Foley Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, what a great explanation of Zen! Open to everyone, all people are included. It was inclusive thinking, not discriminatory. I guess the ZC does not want deplorables in its halls... :)
Gene Foley
Gene Foley Gender politics. Zendo politics.
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Albert Batista
Albert Batista Gene Foley Sad to see. This is the kind of stuff that goes on in Baptist Churches, Catholic Churches, Evangelicals. One group determines what is appropriately "Christ-like" and everyone else gets kicked out... Sad, but ZC has become just another church bureaucracy.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley I really didn't fit in at ZC. Suzuki Roshi said "Way Seeking Mind" arrises out of our angst. We somehow know without thinking that something is amiss. That was not my case. I found my place on mountain tops. I loved life! But I did not understand others angst. I was unaware. I loved having rough edges! Outlaw! I don't go back because I hurt people. One person in particular. No, I can think of three. Well, now that I think about it maybe more. Folks try Zen hoping it will cure them. Make them better. I cannot argue with that.
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Erin Durst
Erin Durst Honestly this just illuminates what we all know...that no sangha is free of the ignorance and hate proliferating in the United States as a whole these days
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Erin Durst Suzuki Roshi understood Americans very well. There is a lot of wisdom hidden in his teaching. His war stories are interesting. He said Americans are always trying to improve things.



Lasse Loske
Lasse Loske everybody loves the dead masters in stories....
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Lasse Loske
Lasse Loske wow. so sad to ban someone from teaching over this. if this is offensive to someone to the degree of writing a letter of complaint, that person is obviously severely traumatized and in need of professional help, and their reaction should not be taken as a reaction to the external world, but a reaction to their own trauma and triggers. what will we be left with when we whitewash everything so that it can’t offend anybody. Enlightenment is great understanding of delusion. How are people to understand their delusions if anything that brings the delusions to the surface is deemed offensive?
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Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman Honestly, there's nothing I've read this morning that makes me want to support the letter-writer MORE than the suggestion that she needs "professional help" for having written it. Particularly given the history of Buddhism in America and the numerous abuses defended therein, including at SFZC. I still think the banning was an extreme overreaction, but the guys defending Ed here in such dismissive terms are giving me second thoughts.
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Lasse Loske
Lasse Loske sorry, you are right that it isn’t nice to say someone needs professional help. (I certainly do, but can’t afford it.) And yet, after listening to all the excerpts I still feel like there is nothing offensive there. If I get offended or reactive because of my trauma, I feel it is my responsibility to deal with my trauma, not the worlds responsibility to not offend me. Again, nothing in the excerpts sounds offensive to me.
Put on shoes or cover the world with leather.....
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Steve I agree overreaction! Maybe there is a lesson in this!
For one, avoid harming the person for expressing their pain.
I have attended a couple of Ed's lectures. I have also studies Dogen's Instructions for the Cook.
He weaves that through his teaching, so it seems. I was kinda blessed by him, so to say.
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Sandra J Lyons
Sandra J Lyons To my mind, it’s never wrong to apologize for unintentionally offending someone. It will always make matters worse to tell the offended person that they shouldn’t be offended.
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Lasse Loske
Lasse Loske
Image may contain: sky, text, nature and outdoor
Susanne Fairfax
Susanne Fairfax · 6 mutual friends
Steve Silberman, there are many comments here should have you re-considering. Also see Susan O'Connell’s comments.
Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman I just read them. Her comments don't make me reconsider my comments, but confirm my suspicion that *even though* the comments on the tapes were not sufficient justification for banning Ed from SFZC, there was more going on behind the scenes. That's an important point.
Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell Thanks Susanne Fairfax - for helping to calm the waters.
Susanne Fairfax
Susanne Fairfax · 6 mutual friends
Steve Silberman I apologize for confusion from my lack of clarity. To clarify, my comment (not worded quite clearly) had 2 parts:

1. In response to your comment above “ but the guys defending Ed here in such dismissive terms are giving me second thoughts.” - not to reconsider your comments, but in reference to the “second thoughts” you mentioned. I’ll add a screen grab of one of them.
(See Screengrab)

2. The suggestion to see Susan’s comments. This was in response to your comments that there might be more going on prior to this incident. Thank you for looking at them.

Again I’m sorry my comment was not clear.
Image may contain: text
Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman Thanks. Well, that quote is atrocious and the person who wrote it should be publicly shamed. Is it in this thread? The thread has become so elaborate that it's hard to see everything.
Susanne Fairfax
Susanne Fairfax · 6 mutual friends
Steve Silberman it is in this thread.
Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman Yep, I found it. Thanks.
Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman I had to block the person who wrote it.



Dosho Port
Dosho Port I’m not a SFZC person but know Ed and like and respect him, especially for his rough edges. There is nothing in the talk excerpts that seem to support expelling him, imv. Using unspecified past wrongs to impugn Ed’s character and justify this action is not best-practice from a due process perspective. Hopefully, the leadership of SFZC will reverse this seemingly poor decision or go public soon to explain this, although that’s dicey too given Ed’s rights. Anyway ... Best wishes to you all!
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley I found my "difficulties" at SFZC were the greatest teaching. I came there to study Dogen and sit zazen in a zendo. My "practice" up till then was yoga, rock climbing and solo mountaineering. That led me to Thich Nhat Hanh and his walking meditation. I spent many hours sitting on mountain peaks. Alone!
Zen Center brought me down to earth. It was exactly the conflicts and contradictions and downright bullshit that grounded me in the swamp! Splat! I am a fucking lotus! Oh shit!
It changed me. If nothing else, I am no longer homophobic.
Stephen Zenki Salad
Stephen Zenki Salad · 18 mutual friends
All us gays just gave a huge collective sigh of relief!
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Lauren Dito-Keith
Lauren Dito-Keith · 47 mutual friends
This stream makes me so sad. It feels like the last straw for me with the toxicity of Facebook. This comment stream reads like many other political internet lynch mobs from the left and the right. Nobody actually asking any questions! There may actually be more to the story. There may actually be things that were said outside of the recorded talks. There will almost always be people that love and appreciate a difficult teacher but does that mean that the rest of us have to be subjected to hurtful things he says and does? Maybe this was actually protective for some of us.
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Carlos Ponce Cabido
Carlos Ponce Cabido hurtful things he does and says? Please explain.
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David Reich Chadwick The guy's emotional and expressive and rocks the boat and has fits sometimes and can be difficult. Same was true when Suzuki Roshi supported and ordained him and Richard Baker before and after being roshi supported and praised him. There were definite benefits to his being there that outweighed the inconvenience. The abbots committee has decided they don't outweigh the irritations. They're all good people each of whom I love and admire. They're just doing what people do in groups.
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Carlos Ponce Cabido
Carlos Ponce Cabido Koji Acquaviva Dreher fair enough.
Dana Velden
Dana Velden Koji Acquaviva Dreher : from the letter to Ed as shown on Cuke.com: "Dear Ed,

We have received your emails in response to our request to meet to discuss with you the situation that had arisen due to a complaint that we had received from a person who attended your recent Saturday Sitting at Green Gulch. We are sorry that it has taken several days to respond to you.

A small group of us had wished to meet with you to hear from you and discuss this complaint. However, your response to that suggestion shows us that you do not wish to meet or have these discussions, and that there seems to be a reservoir of anger and acrimony toward those of us in leadership."
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Brooks Prouty
Brooks Prouty Koji Acquaviva Dreher In other words, Ed actually gives a sh**. He has high standards and he’s a hard ass when lazy zen students screw up. He deserves praise for this.
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Lauren Dito-Keith
Lauren Dito-Keith · 47 mutual friends
Thanks Dana
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Albert Batista
Albert Batista Koji Acquaviva Dreher you sound very petty.
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Albert Batista
Albert Batista Koji Acquaviva Dreher KOJI. I am your Father. Come with me, and turn to the dark side. Together, we can rule the Zen Center. :)



Chuck Greer
Chuck Greer Unreal... I’ve done retreats with Ed. There is no “there” there in the audio clips. All I heard was his wonderful laugh, which comes out frequently, and a funny story about toilets and zendo wear. Ridiculous to ban him for nothing!
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Phil Benezra
Phil Benezra Thank you for posting this, David. Blessings and good wishes to Ed Brown and all those involved.
Jamie Avera
Jamie Avera I listened to the recordings. As someone with no skin in this game AT ALL, no connection to SFZC or Ed at all (save for my knowing David), and a sympathetic inclination towards women and their battles with sexual harassment, objectification, and discrimination, I have to say THIS all seems very silly. It's a far, far, reach indeed to construe those comments, as recorded, as anything remotely indecent or indecorous.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley What is troubling is that he got slapped.
Maria Christoff
Maria Christoff ...except the word "transvestite" - not only outdated, but also offensive to transgender women labled "transvestite".
Jamie Avera
Jamie Avera Again, he's an old old guy. Sometimes we slip up.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Try giving a 45 minute zen talk sometime! One teacher in particular would say the dumbest things! I would cringe. I look back now and see a bit of myself there. What was I thinking?



Sandra J Lyons
Sandra J Lyons I don’t think Ed meant anything harmful or offensive in what he said. Still, it’s not up to me to say how someone else should feel. Apparently the offended person was quite upset by what she understood Ed to say. It’s too bad that the student didn’t feel that she could address the issue directly with Ed. Perhaps Ed can extend an olive branch to the student, even try to understand how she may have heard his words. Merely being able to listen and empathize is often enough to heal an unintended slight.
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David Reich Chadwick There's no problem with that person or what they did (I keep assuming female but now not sure). The problem is with The abbots group terminating Ed's teaching at SFZC sites because of the letter, past complaints, and his responses to their request to meet with him about it. He doesn't even know what the past complaints are. He recalled his use of the phrase "soft core porn food" being deemed unacceptable.
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Brooks Prouty
Brooks Prouty Why should Ed indulge a lunatic like that? People like that really don’t deserve it. Common courtesy, yes, but what you’re suggesting is going way too far in legitimizing this person’s baseless complaints. Zen is not for everyone. This individual was clearly out of his or her depth.
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Maria Christoff
Maria Christoff Brooks Prouty , please consider rereading HER letter. She bravely asked for awareness not accommodation and I dont think was at all out of her bdebth.
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Axel Kratel
Axel Kratel Maria Christoff She was out of her depth, unable to own her own projections. Yes, the world today is hostile towards transgender people, but to see that hostility in Ed is a projection, and Ed would do any student a big disfavor by tip-toeing around their projections to avoid them getting triggered. Ed is a teacher, the teaching is that students, not teachers are responsible for their own feelings.
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Chuck Greer
Chuck Greer  🙄
Albert Batista
Albert Batista Some people are attention magnets and they want to be victims anywhere they go, because they have learned that being a victim can lead to empowerment, concessions, free memberships, and other benefits.
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Maria Christoff
Maria Christoff I read the posted materials and listened to the portions that ware objectionable. I don't know Ed at all but I do know something about Zen Center "responses" - played here again in the letter from the abbots. I am sad that a newcommer felt marginalized, I am amazed she spoke up with such grace and held a mirror to the INSTITUTION asking for understanding and awareness - she is doing ZC a favor ! However I see no responsibility, true selfreflection or true com[passion by the abbots - not for the practitioner, not for the teacher (Ed). I read no intent to take measures in the INSTITUTION and that INSTITUTION is quite blind and unaware of the culture of trasgressive behaiviors and speech in the area of gender, sexuality and sexual experience. I no longer come to Tassajara for that reason and sadly find myself avoiding Zen Center altogether. When I was a resident on many occasions I raised warnings that what I am experiencing from peers and superiors feels "off" and plain wrong. The leadership ignored it, told me to "practice with it" , took no action on promisess they made . finaly afteone of the so called leaders groped me in a public place outside ZC grounds himself, exposed my brest and forced his tongue down my throath. I find ZC's leaders quite stunted in understanding matters of sex and gender and hypocritical , hiding behind the robe of practice. No real checks and ballances in my humble opinion.
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Liz Wolf-Spada
Liz Wolf-Spada I hope you reported that assault.
Tim O'Connor Fraser
Tim O'Connor Fraser Maria, I'm sorry all of that was your experience at SFZC. That's a shocking account, and I can totally understand why you would stay away from Tassajara and City Center as a result. My heart goes out to you, and I hope there were consequences to the leader who assaulted you in this way.
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Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell Tim O'Connor Fraser - there were consequences to the Zen Center teacher.
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Maria Christoff
Maria Christoff Tim O'Connor Fraser, Thank you for acknowledging my experience. I did not report for many reasons - one being by that time I have lost faith that the organization has willingness to address and correct it's blind spots and punish misconduct. I have heard of other women who tried and only suffered more.
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Tim O'Connor Fraser
Tim O'Connor Fraser Maria, given what you experienced, that makes complete sense, and it's disappointing that you didn't feel supported to come forward. That kind of culture is extremely toxic if it is allowed to go unchecked. It sounds like what Susan said above is not in reference to the experience you are describing? One hopes that what happened to you -- as bad as it was -- was an isolated incident; leaders should be treating students/residents this way.
Maria Christoff
Maria Christoff Susan O'Connell , How do you know who and when this took place - or perhaps you do have special powers. I don't believe there ware any direct consequences imposed by Zen Center in my case - I never reported and if that teacher self-reported I was not contacted or offerd any measure of amends. If ineed others have come forward indeed than the case looks more and more typical - a permissive institutional culture is the ground of repeated misconduct and offense. I repeat again, my impression is that the organisation is unwilling to recieve feedback and selfexamine it's bling spots, so it's members are at high risk to offend and harm.
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Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell Maria Christoff It is my mistake. The person I was thinking of did come forward and the situation was handled fully. It was the only situation like this that was reported in my 10 years of administrative leadership. I am also sorry for the pain of your experience, and the repercussions it has had in your life.
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Maria Christoff
Maria Christoff Susan O'Connell , thank you for the correction. Do you honestly believe that the only case you knew about because it was reported and escalated enough to be addressed fully is the ONLY case? What I like to know and not hearing in the letter from the abbots to Ed or to the woman who wrote is how is the organization addressing this as a whole, how are people in position of power and the rank and file resident practitioner examining biases and conditioning and reflecting on patterns of thinking and behaving that are harmful, how are people in power positions kept in check, how is the institution keeping up with understanding and new language addressing issues of sexual and gender volnurability .
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Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell Dear Maria - of course I can’t know if the situation I worked with was the only case. I do know however that in the past 10 years Zen Center has concentrated on raising awareness on issues involving “right use of sexuality and power” and there have been many trainings for both the new residents and the senior teachers. Perhaps the institution you saw as blind is not the same - after all, institutions are not things - they are merely made up of people who can be shown better and more truthful and compassionate and upright ways to respond. At least, this has been my experience as I have watched things evolve.
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Maria Christoff
Maria Christoff I am glad and relieved to hear that this is so. It has been possibly about 10 years since I left Zen Center. I do agree with you that institutions are made up of people and a collective growth is possible.
4



Axel Kratel
Axel Kratel So typical SFZC, catering to the over-sensitivity of some Zen students to the point that they're just perpetuating their fragility. Spirit Rock and a number of other centers do the same thing, a very unhealthy. It's all about money, protecting the income to the ZC generated from those over-sensitive fragile guests and students. I remember my wife showering my back-then 2 year old son in the bathrooms at Tassajara, and the poor "spiritual seekers' with their sense of entitlement complaining about his screamings, disturbing their silence. My son didn't like showers when he was 2. Well, suffice to say my wife didn't like getting scolded by some of the Tassajara staff. I guess children and real life isn't part of Zen in some people's minds. If I ever teach I would pull the same shenanigans that Ed does, he rocks! These people need to learn a few things from JP. Zen that's squeaky clean and politically correct is just more new age garbage, it's not real zen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6f7KWpBrGE

YOUTUBE.COM
Spiritual People Thinking Out Loud - Ultra Spiritual Life episode 59
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Brooks Prouty
Brooks Prouty Nailed it!
1



Maria Christoff
Maria Christoff hahahaaaa
Lauren Dito-Keith
Lauren Dito-Keith · 47 mutual friends
Thanks Dana Velden for including another piece of the puzzle. The abbots reached out to talk about it and he refused. And more. The “dismissal” was not the first response.
1
Brooks Prouty
Brooks Prouty You assume that there is substance to the referenced history of misspeaking. Yet, it is crystal clear that there is absolutely no substance to this current report that supposedly triggered this disciplinary action. If there is no substance now, how can you impute substance then? You have to assume there was no substance, at any point.
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David Reich Chadwick Not as simple as the abbots reached out and Ed refused. They wanted him to meet with six or so on the committee and they obviously hadn't even listened to the tape. A most intimidating way to deal with it. He wrote three responses before the one posted and each one expressed different moods he was in.- from cooperating and self-deprecating to frustrated and angry. I suggested to him that he have an advocate come with him if he does so. It's an ongoing thing. Rather than six busy people spending all that time to meet with him, maybe one of them should have listened to the lectures and driven out to talk with him. Been sensitive about his feelings. But they may be too busy for that so I think it might be better for him to move on. If he returns he'll do so under the cloud of knowing that he's not really welcome and he has to be very careful not to say anything that might offend someone. That doesn't fit with Ed's style which is freewheeling and expressive. He's a great story-teller and much more sensitive about others than I could be. But he doesn't fit in a scene where he can't express himself freely. The abbots group are all good people. They are trying to be sensitive to everyone's feelings and it's hard for them to do that without offending others.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson David Reich Chadwick you give a heck af a lot of credence to the abbots group David: and I would imagine that Ed is in a lot of different states around this stuff. He has put 50 years of his life into this place...it’s shocking that they treated him in this manner especially that the same considerations were not extended to him as had been extended to others who committed more serious transgressions in the past...WEIRD!
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Florence Caplow
Florence Caplow David Reich Chadwick, thanks for your words...we are all stepping in with our opinions to relationships that have been ongoing for decades. May there be healing going forward, and direct communication between those closest to the situation, always best.



Gene Foley
Gene Foley "For the moral mind, you must have some measure of value. How you make this measurement is a big problem. The measurement for a woman will not be same for man. There is a big problem!" Suzuki Roshi
7/26/65
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley “Our way is not to get rid of all the stones from the earth which could be a stumbling stone for you. It is good to have many stones on the earth which could be stumbling stone. It is good. If you understand, that is enlightenment. If you don't understand, it is a big painful slap.”
Suzuki Roshi
8/21/71
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Linda Anderson
Linda Anderson Keep the bread rising, Ed. Blessings and Best Wishes
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Susanne Fairfax
Susanne Fairfax · 6 mutual friends
I’m going to place this reference here in case anyone chooses to use this as an opportunity to expand their learning, understanding and compassion for fellow human beings. With the content of this thread, I’m not optimistic, but in the spirit of vow of “Beings are numberless, I vow to free them.”
https://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

GLAAD.ORG
GLAAD Media Reference Guide - Transgender
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Albert Batista
Albert Batista So are you running a Zen Center or a Gay-Lesbian-Transgender club??
Maria Christoff
Maria Christoff No, but a place for ALL Beings , last time i checked .
Albert Batista
Albert Batista Maria Christoff That's bullshit. Either you are fish or fowl. A Universal Bullshit Center is what you have become.




Susanne Fairfax
Susanne Fairfax · 6 mutual friends
I also invite anyone to listen again to the section of audio with the discussion of “orgasmic meditation” and a woman’s “black panties.” If you find this right speech for a zendo, I ask that you sit with that and think how this might land with someone with a different lived experience than yourself. In my Zen practice it seems valuable to see situations from other perspectives. I would not be comfortable in this situation. He was in a position of power as teacher, priest, speaker. I would have been extremely uncomfortable taking any instruction from him after this talk. Additionally, I am personally troubled about much of what has been said on this thread. I am grateful to Susan O'Connell for her presence amid this otherwise disturbing thread.
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Kōgen Dito-Keith
Kōgen Dito-Keith Dear Susanne, I’ve been silent on this thread because I’ve got way too much bias: I love Zen Center and Linda Ruth is my teacher. And I want to step away from my silence, lest it be seen as acceptance. I agree 110% that the audio you refer to is unacceptable. As I listened, I heard a person pandering for laughs, not bringing some situation into the light of dharma. I also notice that the majority of the critical comments are are being made by white men. Maybe these guys are still looking for the glowing man with the bald head who’s going to show them “real” zen. Regardless, this thread has become a grievance pole for catchall complaints and I’m not even sure
If or how Zen center should respond. For some this is just another flavor of online banter, words being thrown around on a whim as they wait for the traffic light to change. If anyone is interested in a real conversation, we’ll be “playing zen” 6 days a week. The wake up bell does not relent, the fields need tending, and someone needs to cook breakfast. You want to come do that here, I encourage that. You want to come test the fragility of the people who come here for refuge? Well this is as good a hill as any for patriarchy to die on.
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Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman I'm sorry, Susanne Fairfax, I honestly don't get - at all - what you're saying about Ed's mention of "orgasmic meditation." He was clearly talking about sittings with the One Taste people, and that's *their* phrase - it's not like he's throwing it in. See the Wikipedia entry below. As far as the black panties go, it looks like the One Taste people were a lot more explicit than that, though I can see how the remark might have made some people, women especially, uncomfortable. But to present that section of the audio as clear, self-sufficient basis for banning Ed seems wrong to me. I don't know about the stuff behind the scenes, but I have to assume it was worse than those clips. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OneTaste
EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG
OneTaste - Wikipedia
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Susanne Fairfax
Susanne Fairfax · 6 mutual friends
Steve Silberman I did not “present it as clear, sufficient basis for banning.” I drew attention to it in response to people saying they heard nothing wrong.
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Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman Thanks, Susanne. I stil hear *nothing* wrong in Ed using the phrase "orgasmic meditation," since that seems to have been One Taste's trip. The mention of black panties seems a bit much, but for me, not sufficient for banning. But that's me and I will grant that I'm enormously exasperated by the male voices weighing in here, including mine.
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Kermit D Mann
Kermit D Mann Kōgen Dito-Keith well said! go when the bell rings.
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Susanne Fairfax
Susanne Fairfax · 6 mutual friends
Kōgen Dito-Keith thank you. ❤️🙏
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Axel Kratel
Axel Kratel Kōgen Dito-Keith There's mostly white men and women who have access to this post. I am sure you have noticed the affluent white Silicon Valley fed demographics at SFZC, not to mention in this part of FB. You have to be a quasi millionaire to be able to afford to come to SFZC because of how expensive it is to live nearby. In that light your generalization about white men seems rather misplaced. However, there's definitely something about men versus women. My general impression is that many men in Buddhist circles in Northern California feel the pressure to demasculate, or should I say effeminate. I think that's a very unhealthy tendency.
Kōgen Dito-Keith
Kōgen Dito-Keith Axel Kratel if I’d felt pressure to be effeminate as much as I have to feel “masculine”, maybe I’d care. But what kind of mind set do you have to have to think you can be emasculated? I think there is masculinity to spare- don’t fret.
Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman "You have to be a quasi millionaire to be able to afford to come to SFZC because of how expensive it is to live nearby." I'm sure this seems accurate from your viewpoint in Hawaii, but it's not true and erases the many non-"quasi-millionaires" living in rent-controlled apartments.
Axel Kratel
Axel Kratel Kōgen Dito-Keith The pressure to effeminate is often a function of one's appearance and mannerism, and the amount of masculine energy one has. People project the contents of their minds on people all day long, some of us have to compensate harder than others. Of course it's not like I am exempt from the projection game, I have my own share of issues. Don't forget that FB is just an amalgam of opinions, so don't take mine too seriously.
Axel Kratel
Axel Kratel Steve Silberman I "escaped" from Silicon Valley and spent a lot of time at all three zen centers run by SFZC, I was taking some liberties to get a point across. "Many" isn't an adjective that to comes to mind when describing any form of affordable housing in the Bay area, let alone SF. So I had to look it up, indeed, 39% of SF population lives in rent controlled housing. That's more than I expected, but still a small fraction of the greater Bay area. I would still call the SFZC clientele predominantly "affluent" white Americans.
Carlos Ponce Cabido
Carlos Ponce Cabido What all that you said had any thing to do with Zen?
Axel Kratel
Axel Kratel Carlos Ponce Cabido What does Ed getting banned have to do with Zen?
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David Jacob
David Jacob I don't understand how talking about an event that previously happened inappropriate. It's not what I would choose to do, and I can see how it may have made someone uncomfortable. But, he's not the first Zen Priest to make a student feel uncomfortable. And, I imagine that actually seeing the woman in the panties would have been far more intense.
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David Reich Chadwick There have been other cases - someone wearing a see-through net. I've seen a person go naked into the zendo. We survived these and many other aberrations. And we'll survive people getting offended at what seems like harmless speech. But we won't survive for long no matter what. .
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Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell David Reich Chadwick -as you can imagine, there is more to this story than just this one incident. We are working on a more complete statement.




David Silva
David Silva I listened to the clips, and there is nothing there that would/should result in his not being welcomed to give talks at ZFZC. The critical info seems to be "...and that there seems to be a reservoir of anger and acrimony toward those of us in leadership."
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Rick Slone
Rick Slone It's some kind of cosmic joke-we can only ever love imperfectly, yet are so adroit at becoming perfect assholes. the path is one continuous mistake-fall down, get up, fall down get up. This musing applies to both sides of this equation.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Eventually you will feel some contradiction in your everyday life, some uneasiness, a feeling that you have nothing to rely on. It is this feeling that gives rise to the way seeking mind.
Suzuki Roshi
3/26/66
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley I work in the trades and had a problem with a woman who took everything i did as a threat. I am a master at my trade and when I would recommend something she would defy me. So while working up on a scaffolding I rescued a little Jumping Spider from being crushed. Unfortunately she saw it, screamed and fell backwards breaking the railing and almost did a back flip off the scaffold. Then she ran to the manager and claimed I had attacked her with a spider. She made a formal complaint and I almost lost my job. Hey. What can I say? Whatever. Or as my dad would say: Aah Nuts!
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Steve Tracy
Steve Tracy Zen Center is suddenly, well not so suddenly, all cowardly and nitpicky. Ed Brown, along with Leslie James, is Tassajara. I was at Green Gulch when he got thrown out of their kitchen once for equally persnickety reasons and I protested then. Zen is becoming exceedingly weak tea.
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Bob Gesell
Bob Gesell Maybe SFZC is over, and needs to be replaced. Perhaps it is time for a revolution.




Gene Foley
Gene Foley I stopped by ZC awhile ago and got a good laugh. I ride a motorcycle and was sitting on the front steps stuffing my heavy jacket and riding pants into my pack when along comes Steve Weintraub leading a whole flock of monks down the hill. So I hunkered down hugging my pack with everything in disarray and pretended to be a homeless guy. As he started up the steps I tipped my head, looked him in the eye and said Spare Change?. Funny as hell! Wow did I get a dirty look! Lol! Like I stink or something. Half an hour later we crossed paths in the hallway. Lol! I bowed deeply and smiled. Gottcha! Compassion? Impaction? Distraction?
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Bob Gesell
Bob Gesell Hypocrisy is such great fun!
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Please! Try to be charitable! Lol! What if you spent years striving to reach the top and there you are, the Abbot and you realize your cynical nature has only magnified your dislike of humans who beg for your wisdom? What would you do? Everyone is wildly delusional and you are up to your ears with it all? Everything transparent. No substance! Not a hypocrite but a true cynic! What would you do. Poor guy!




Tim Langdell
Tim Langdell Ed would be most welcome to speak at a day session at Pasadena Zen Center. Can anyone link me to the audio of the talk in question? From all I’ve heard it did not rise to the level of justifying him being banned. Bows 🙏🏼
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Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer
Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer Tim Langdell cuke.com

CUKE.COM
Home - Cuke.com
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Tim Langdell
Tim Langdell Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer thank you
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David Silva
David Silva barred-from-sfzc.htm

CUKE.COM
Edward Brown barred from teaching at SFZC
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Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer
Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer Tim Langdell see David Silvas link below....more direct.
Bob Gesell
Bob Gesell With organizations comes orthodoxy and dogmatism and correctness. These are the hazards of joining any club.
Gene Foley
Gene Foley I prefer gangs.
Image may contain: 15 people, people smiling, people standing
David Silva
David Silva Gene Foley Gene: you've been keeping me quite entertained. Love it, and all your SR quotes. Keeping the dharma alive 🙏👍
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Seriously, you gotta have sense of humor or you will suffer!
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David Silva
David Silva Gene Foley I'm hoping Ed can keep up his humor. As you might know, he has a tendency to be quite self-deprecating. He's good at making jokes about this, but in private I'm pretty sure it bothers him.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley I got invited to a Black Muslim meeting because of my sense of humor. And I insulted Wino Willy in front of the Boozefighters MC gang. I had em' laughing in no time. Funny guy! None of that works at ZC. Have you ever noticed that Zen masters always laugh before they tell a joke?
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Wayne Codling
Wayne Codling I am sad. I know all these people, some better than others, Ed was my supervisor when I was head student at GGF. On my wall hangs an official certificate of my completion of the Priest Training Program at SFZC, authorized by Ed Brown's signature. I know some of the commenters, also and like some of them I have a deep well of love and gratitude for all of them, flaws and all. After the excrement encountered the turbine at SFZC, the senior monks who stayed to help and those who left to return to the marketplace all seemed to forget the five basic precepts. All they have to do to deal with situations like this is remember to avoid being heedless about property, harmful speech and behavior, intoxicants and sensuality. Ed was one who left but continued to use the facility for lectures and retreats. He was sometimes a bit carried away with his own charisma and trespassed on the right speech and the heedlessness to offense fronts. It is critical that a senior Zen student and teacher not stray from those negative precepts. All the senior students were and probably continue to be very concerned over the proper preservation of the lineage; they have a deep responsibility and feel it, I am sure. It must have been hard to punish so severely someone whose generosity has fueled the very existence of the SFZC. We all live on a knife edge; there is very little wiggle room within which to act properly. It will be hard to not let our passions overwhelm our speech, but we should. It might be tempting to exploit the suffering of other people in order to prevail in some contest. I suppose it would be helpful to remember also that in the end it is more important to be kind than to be right.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Appreciate problems. If you have no problems, it may be a terrible life to sit in this zendo with nothing to do.
Suzuki Roshi
2/12/71
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Tim Langdell
Tim Langdell Now listened to the “troublesome” audio and find nothing wrong other than he could have chosen his words somewhat better. The reference to a transgender person in the bathroom was insensitive but his point that you need to be careful what you assume was made with that reference. Still could have been more skillfully presented.




Gene Foley
Gene Foley To observe our rules is not the main point. Emphasize natural activity with good concentration and tender mind; A soft, not rigid mind.
Rules are like a sharp knife. Tender mind is like a dull knife; Less danger of cutting your fingers. Sharp knife is necessary, you know, but to use it is not so good.
Suzuki Roshi
8/18/69
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Years ago I had a friend who is a high powered Pentecostal preacher. He was amazing. It was in a black holiness church which practices an African healing ritual. He said he married his wife early because he needed that wedding ring to avoid temptation. Women would go out of their way to seduce him. He found resisting difficult! Lol! I think Richard Baker was just too weak to resist temptation. Dan Walsh sent me to SFZC but warned me: "The teaching is excellent but be careful, it is very dangerous there." LMAO! First thing I got involved in a sex scandal. Unfortunately with no sex. Delusional sex scandal. Emptiness abounds!
Gene Foley
Gene Foley Open Letters
The Century Illustrated Monthly Magazine
November 1892

“ . . . it must be admitted that the pleasantest men met with are often those who are so deeply conscious of the terrible realities of life that their humor is simply a well-bred effort to make the pathetic endurable, or to conceal their own distress. On many faces stamped with lines of grief may be seen playing a quaint humor, seeming like an essence which has come through life's furnaces purified; a something, call it what you will-a pleasing play of fancy backed by compassion and goodwill, making trouble lighter and gaiety brighter for all; a glimmer of satisfaction, perhaps, in not being responsible for the making of this world; an attempt to make the best of things where perhaps the only answers to the cries of the desolate and anguished are in the hearts of human beings.”
Axel Kratel
Axel Kratel I remember as a guest student at Tassajara I was once singled out by a woman who said "I don't like your energy", I guess I was too masculine in how I chopped the carrots. I think it's time for us men to fight back against the emasculation of men. I am a big believer in equal rights and women's liberation movement, ass well as LGBT and gender rights. But enough is enough, these things are no excuse to persecute masculinity in spiritual circles. I am well aware of the abuses of the patriarchy. And in the light of recent events in the news we know how extensive the damage is. Alas as someone who really looks the part as an old muscular white guy, I get the brunt of the projections from the many victims of our stone age patriarchy. I think it's possible to be a man and be kind. But it does involve knowing what to do with sexual energy, if you never talk about it, it will rear its ugly head in unwanted manners. I am well aware of the history of SFZC in regards to some teachers not themselves managing that energy very well. Ed's not one of them.
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Mark Bittner
Mark Bittner What do you see as the difference between masculinity and male egotism?
Gene Foley
Gene Foley The definition of a man is any male that tends to father and protect children.
Axel Kratel
Axel Kratel Mark Bittner It is the same difference between a compassionate male and a jerk for starters. There's entire men groups dedicated to figuring this out and practicing non-toxic masculinity. For example the Good Men Project. I think I can't answer it in a FB comment alone. IMHO we actually need a male liberation movement, not to "counter" the women's revolution, but for men to be able to leave toxic patriarchal narcissistic masculinity behind and follow a new model for masculinity.
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Axel Kratel
Axel Kratel Here's an example of LGBT in non-toxic masculinity: https://goodmenproject.com/.../thats-so-gay-is-just-so.../

GOODMENPROJECT.COM
'That's So Gay' Is Just so Wrong - The Good Men Project
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Harriet Chino
Harriet Chino Brooks Prouty Susan O'Connell While I think it is important for all people everywhere to be sensitive to the needs of others, I also think that it is important that Zen groups do not get into the psychological treatment business. Zen priests or practitioners are, for the most part, not qualified psychotherapists. As I stated in another post, the original Zen teachers from Japan were simply overwhelmed by students practicing "spiritual bypassing" (Look it up, it will be enlightening).. They were not trained psychotherapists and there were students who committed suicide. Most students just limped along, never resolving their underlying psychological issues and never becoming fully self actualized. Even the ones for stayed in SFZC for 50 years. People who come to such a center with heavy psycho emotional issues should immediately be referred away for psychotherapy. Again, several articles on "spiritual bypass". I suggest anyone in a place like SFZC read them. Also, I moved into SFZC with all of the other first students in October, 1969. Suzuki died 2 years later. I doubt that he would have encouraged students to stay there at SFZC for any extended period of time. The two Zen students that I have respect for are two men, one of whom got his PhD from Stanford in statistical mathematics and then worked for many years at STanford as a mathematician. The other was SFZC first building manager. He had a close relationship with Suzuki but left after a couple of years and became the world' foremost stained glass artist. They used zazen (and still do sit) to enrich their lives, but "Zen" didn't become their entire life. Mark Bittner has the best comment on that in this long stream of comments. I think most people reading the letters skipped over the part about Ed having had several previous incidents requiring counseling. And again, I think the best thing for Ed to do would be to step away from SFZC, explore some other options. I'm not so sure it is useful for Ed's life for him to continue to stay with them.
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Axel Kratel
Axel Kratel You're spot on with pointing at spiritual bypass, but I don't see that applying to Ed. I have yet to meet a teacher that doesn't have any baggage. Just like shrinks, teachers often help others as a means to help themselves. The "holy" perfect teacher exists only in the mind of the novice. That doesn't take away from the beauty and effectiveness of talented teachers and shrinks. Some teachers don't deal with their "shit" and cause problems, but I don't see that to be an issue with Ed. http://sfzc.org/inquiry-into-spiritual-bypassing

SFZC.ORG
Inquiry Into Spiritual Bypassing | San Francisco Zen Center
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Harriet Chino
Harriet Chino Thank you for this link. I cannot say with any authority if "spiritual bypassing" in any way pertains to Ed. But if, as the letter from SFZC says, that they have had to counsel Ed about many problems in the past, then it could possibly be relevant. I am not involved at all so I really cannot say. I think that many teachers and many students use spiritual bypassing as a way to avoid really dealing with their problems. Mostly, this saddens me because I would like people to be truly healthy and happy mentally. But of course, it can also be and often is quite damaging to students. We all know of many instances where priests both American and Japanese have caused psychological trauma to their students because of their own problems.
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Joe Cohen
Joe Cohen Ed told a story that Byron Katie related about her own thought process, about how her mind created an erroneous interpretation of the events in front of her. It was a liberating and joyous moment, and the telling of it was entirely in the spirit of Buddhist teaching.

“I discovered that when I believed my thoughts, I suffered, but that when I didn’t believe them, I didn’t suffer, and that this is true for every human being. Freedom is as simple as that. I found that suffering is optional. I found a joy within me that has never disappeared, not for a single moment.” Byron Katie (Found that quote on Wikipedia.)

It seems that the offended party and Zen Center took a moment of teaching and transformed it into suffering.
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Harriet Chino
Harriet Chino That often is the way.
Willem Malten
Willem Malten suffering is not optional
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Willem Malten
Willem Malten this only makes me sad, for Ed Brown for sure, but even more so for Zen Center itself.
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Renshin Bunce
Renshin Bunce Poor Ed. Poor all of us.
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David Reich Chadwick Things will evolve. Could just come down to a lovers' spat and they kiss and make up.
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Matt Jeschke
Matt Jeschke Thanks, Renshin, I have been sorting through my complex feelings about all of this, and this is well said. And David may be right too.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson I’d say...impoverished, malnourished, neglected.




Steve Silberman
Steve Silberman The funny thing about this thread is that when I first read it, I thought ZC had way overreacted. But the guys weighing in endlessly here with their arrogant, dismissive, condescending attitudes, and their pontifications about "real Zen" and "emasculation," really helped me understand where the initial letter-writer was coming from. Thanks guys.
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Carlos Ponce Cabido
Carlos Ponce Cabido I hope this episode will be resolved and everybody happy. Finito.
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Phil Benezra
Phil Benezra In one of the exerpts at issue, Ed did not drive home that the whole point of his story was that thoughts about the horrors of transvestites invading women's bathrooms may be delusional. It was supportive of the LGBTQ community. After an elaborate story about a transvestite standing and peeing on a toilet seat in a women's bathroom and a lot of laughter, Ed dismissed the whole scene with a subtle comment to the effect of "So much for thoughts!"--Which whole experience was disturbing to a new, gay student. And of course he did not drive the issue home, because for a zen teacher that is not the point either!
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Phil Benezra
Phil Benezra Perhaps what is needed is Ed reinstated with a warning label. Something to the effect of: "Ed Brown is a deeply compassionate human being and cherished icon of SFZC. He often teaches in the honored tradition of "crazy wisdom". Anyone who is sensitive to what may be construed as inappropriate comments would do well to attend a retreat with another SFZC teacher." 😊
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley I thought Zen already came with a warning label!
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Michael Papas
Michael Papas Trungpa was brutal at times, but he shifted the Earth on it’s axis.
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Deirdre Carrigan
Deirdre Carrigan Whatever is the outcome, there seems to be the opportunity here for students of Suzuki Roshi to meet and heal what seems clearly to be a painful past.
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Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell Here is the statement from SFZC about the process with Ed Brown.http://blogs.sfzc.org/.../leadership-statement-regarding.../
BLOGS.SFZC.ORG
Leadership Statement Regarding Edward Brown | Sangha News - San Francisco Zen Center
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Phil Benezra
Phil Benezra Susan O'Connell Thank you for posting this.
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Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer
Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer Susan O'Connell thank you Susan. I received this from SFZC because we are members.
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David Reich Chadwick Thanks for sharing this Susan. I'm posting it too and adding a preliminary comment:

The first paragraph of ZC leaderships' letter understandably misses a few initial steps in the sequence of events. First, Edward Brown sent out an email on the subject. He sent the supporting material to me - the letter of complaint, ZC's email to him, his final response (after calming down some) and the audio files for the talks. He said I could post whatever I wanted. I'm always involved in more than I can keep up with so I kept all the material in a folder to think about later and kept communicating with Edward stressing this wasn't permanent, that ZC and he will evolve. Then Lichen Brown posted a letter on Facebook. There were many responses to her post and many questions so I shared it and then posted the supporting material so people could judge for themselves. Ed wrote me that Lichen was surprised by the enormous response to her letter and asked if I'd add to the cuke page on this that "it was not her intention to hurt or harm anyone, nor is it mine."
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Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell thanks David.

David Reich Chadwick Susan O'Connell Ouch. Yes. This will all (as I repeatedly post) evolve.
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Charles Kennedy
Charles Kennedy My response:
I'm not downplaying the substantial grief on all sides, as everyone's viewpoint has validity (I don't mean that in a generic way....each side is sincerely aggrieved based on substantive facts). However, this is analogous to a run-of-the-mill hostile work environment complaint. Given SFZC leadership's role in maintaining a platform for speech in front of diverse audiences, it is shockingly clear no planned policy was brought to bear on this incident. I don't even work in human resources and I can identify several important mistakes:
- Loss of confidentiality of the complaintant's statement (and other aspects of the process).
- Not following up in a timely manner on communications.
- Not gathering evidence & not establishing corroboration of the facts.
- Issues with Ed's "deportment" in the past are referenced. Is that established in the record? Most reasonable people can and will adapt their behavior to meet a clearly communicated threshold of expectations. Rather than obliquely referencing "past issues with deportment", there should be a *confidential record* of explicit warnings and identified corrective actions. Maybe there is a record? I don't know.
- Linking expressions of anger, acrimony & animus by one of the parties with the dismissal decision.

Responding in a professional manner to an actual or perceived hostile work environment is well established policy & procedure.

Expressed feelings of anger or acrimony should have no substantive effect on leadership's response. The letter of dismissal explicitly links expressed feelings of anger/acrimony/animus with the dismissal decision. *There is nothing to be gained from personalizing this process in a public format.* It could be interpreted as forewarning to the community that "those in leadership" shall not broker expressions of animus towards leadership without serious personal consequence.

I don't know what was said in the email exchanges. However, absent any threats, it is reasonable to expect leaders to weather some expressed anger/animus in a situation like this without relying on the anger/animus to inform their decision making process (and authority).

So.....leadership appears to embark upon addressing a hostile work environment complaint and (instead of gathering facts and working through the process) attempts to resolve the situation by writing a public letter calling out one of the parties as angry & acrimonious towards leadership which, in part, justifies dismissal.

*Just drive the bus please*!

Write a hostile work environment response policy that conforms to standards for organizational management. Hire a HR professional to review it (or hire an HR person to develop it). Approve the policy by the board. *Work the policy* the next time this comes up!

Easy enough to find faults in leadership. :)
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David Reich Chadwick This comment deserves more than to be buried here in a string of comments. Will post Monday and share. Thanks.
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David Reich Chadwick Charles Kennedy Another thought I had and have only expressed to Ed, is something he mentioned in one of his peeved emails and that is the idea of him alone going to talk with a whole group of them. I suggested he do so if he can bring one or more advocates or witnesses and I think a mediator might be called for. Something like that. He's very emotional and to have a face to multiple faces would seem to be to be too intimidating. What think you about this?
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Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell David Reich Chadwick I agree that Charles Kennedy’s comment is helpful and I am sure that this situation will help create a more clear policy and procedure. However, one small point, is that SFZC did not cause loss of confidentiality of the complainants statement. We shared the complaint, minus the name, with Ed along with one of our communications with him. This was a private matter until some combination of Ed and you decided to share a select portion of these private communications.

I appreciate that you keep so many people informed about the history and teachings and teachers in this lineage - but perhaps we could be in better communication in the future and - if you think something should be made public - we could hear that from you before you post it? I say “we”, even though I am not currently in a position of leadership, because most of those who are at the present are not active on social media.
Charles Kennedy
Charles Kennedy Having 3rd party mediator is probably required at this point because it's been badly mishandled.
3rd party mediation may have helped in the first place, but I don't know the dynamics enough to really know.
It's always a good idea to bring counsel or have counsel if dismissal is being discussed. This is usually required (or at least available) in most unionized shops.
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Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell David Reich Chadwick we are already thinking about bringing in a mediator.
Charles Kennedy
Charles Kennedy Susan, i suggest SFZC hire or consult an HR professional. I believe (not 100% positive 'cause i don't do HR and have never seen one of these play out) sharing the complaint itself with the accused is a loss of confidentiality.
Susan O'Connell
Susan O'Connell Charles Kennedy I will check on this. But I believe that they may have had permission to share it. I am in a difficult position because I was not part of either of the groups that discussed this and took action. I have been trying to help with communications because when I was President there was a “fire storm” on social media about the way we were working with Blanche Hartman’s increasing needs for assisted care, which I responded to with a statement. So I had some experience which I have tried to share.
Charles Kennedy
Charles Kennedy Again, I'm not an HR guy....my understanding comes mostly from research when I was preparing to interview for a management position at Toolik field station and the ubiquitous hostile work environment trainings at multiple jobs. Anyways, I believe it's important that neither the complaintant nor the accused "drive the process". Permission to implement any component of the process comes from neither party.
T. Steve Mushin Crisman
T. Steve Mushin Crisman Charles Kennedy thank you.

David Reich Chadwick Mainly I like to stay out of this sort of squabble. My policy is not to share anything without permission. I didn't realize I was doing so. All that came with it was name withheld and I'd received the letters from several parties suggesting I post what I want and with Lichen's post and all the responses the discussion had gone public and it seemed people needed to know what the accusations were and what they were about. Ed and Lichen both suggested I take the letter of complaint off but the cat was out of the bag and people wanted the info. I imagine some ZC leaders would rather no one knew about any of it because of the headache the response to their actions.brought on. I'd rather myself stick to Suzuki Roshi era stuff.
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Charles Kennedy
Charles Kennedy You can publish what I wrote (or not; totally up to you). It's easy enough to see some of the apparent mistakes, but I don't know enough HR stuff to suggest comprehensive solutions.
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David Reich Chadwick What does "hostile work environment" mean in terms of this issue. Do you mean it's a case of the ZC creating a hostile work environment for Edward? Of course staff or some staff may say he creates a hostile work environment for them.
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Charles Kennedy
Charles Kennedy The complaint against Ed falls under the rubric of a hostile work environment.... or in this case, a Buddhist Zen practice environment.
Your book was (is) awesome btw. Many years since I've read it.
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David Reich Chadwick Charles Kennedy Do you mean hostile toward the person making the complaint, toward Edward, or toward leadership? And I'm glad you liked the book, assume you mean Crooked Cucumber.
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Charles Kennedy
Charles Kennedy In a workplace environment, a person attempts to make a joke or communicate something (using this incident as an example....... transvestites peeing on a toilet seat), and a person of transgender orientation (or anyone else) is offended and makes a complaint to workplace management, that can trigger a hostile work environment investigation/resolution (which I don't have any experience in conducting, but it has some standardized protocols). It doesn't matter the intent (I didn't intend to cause offense to transgender people). The perception is what matters (I perceived offense/hostility towards transgender people). It's pretty standard stuff these days if you work for a paycheck. :)

My only point is SFZC pretty quickly lost control of what should be a standardized process/protocol for responding to a hostile work environment complaint, because they likely had no process in place to begin with. It's right there in their follow-on statement, "We reached a point where we felt stymied.....we had reservations about continuing a confusing and non-productive process"......ok, that's at least honest; but points to some lack of skill and/or planning coming from management. A corporate chief executive would likely conclude they either don't understand their job or cannot perform it adequately.

I was thinking of Thank You & Okay! Great book! Playful in spirit & insightful. :)
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David Reich Chadwick Charles Kennedy Oh - I assumed you meant Crooked Cucumber.
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David Reich Chadwick Charles Kennedy I think I'd better add your responses to my questions to your post now on cuke.com page for Comments on Ed's spat with ZC because I had no idea what that term was referring to though the rest of it was clear.
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David Reich Chadwick Couldn't it be called a "hostile lecture environment claim"?
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Charles Kennedy
Charles Kennedy Yes....it's a zen practice environment not a workplace environment, but the approach is the same. The objective of response is interdiction to prevent reoccurrence......not necessarily to assign fault, blame or punishment.
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David Reich Chadwick Prevent reoccurence might not be possible in some cases. I've dealt with a lot of complaints at ZC where just listening to the complainer was the best that could be done and often that was all that was required. For instance someone complaining that we were chanting something in Japanese or someone complaining about allowing dairy even if there were vegan options. I complained to the ino at Tassajara that the person sitting next to me insisted on chanting every word ahead of the others. She told me to get used to it so I did begrudgingly. People complained about Ed Brown putting sugar in some of the food but he was the tenzo so it was his choice. As an officer one may hear countless complaints and some of them can be dealt with to the satisfaction of the person who complains but some can't. We've sure moved away from a tradition where complaints were almost taboo. Hard for a leader to keep up and maintain a harmonious balance. Good luck to us all.
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David Reich Chadwick I live in Bali and have done Vipassana retreats with Myanmar monks and ones meditation and practice are the only topic of talks or meetings with the guru (as any teacher is called). Personal problems or identity or philosophy don't matter - we've all got problems and ideas and opinions and when something arises watch it, name it, follow the breath, focus on the hara, etc. Men and women together but no talking, no paying attention to others and not complaining about others including if they're breaking rules - none of your business. And there's no policing - it's up to you. I complained about the manager's and guru's use of the mic and that was okay. It's a most conflict free experience with others. I've sat retreats with another healing oriented group where mental and physical problems are brought up a lot but I can't recall anyone suggesting others change their behavior. It's more like breathe into your problem with gentleness and harmonious mind. SFZC though is more like a college where all sorts of classes are offered with all sorts of teachers and a lot of administration and it seems to have college type variety of programs, goals, and problems.
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Charles Kennedy
Charles Kennedy I agree that it is impossible to eliminate complainers and complaints. Conflict appears to be a ceaseless condition of being human.
Hostile work environment stuff is about legally protected classes and discrimination against those classes having equal access.......race, gender, national origin, age, religion, etc. Toolik field station was sensitive about complying with Title IX gender discrimination; that's why I did some research on the issue.
SFZC is well served by being somewhat less insular in its decision-making and dutifully complying with externally accepted standards and protocols regarding any actual or perceived conflict arising from legally protected classes.
Just my 2 cents. I hear what you're saying though. You can't actually solve ceaseless conflict.
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David Reich Chadwick I've got a talk in Indonesian to prepare for tomorrow afternoon and my Indonesian is not so good so I'm out of here for a while. I think I'll write a piece on my experience with all this sort of thing. That will be fun. A lot more complaints about me through the years than Ed. I like what Byron Katie answered when asked what she does when someone criticizes her: I look for the truth in it. Of course if she were the head of HR she'd ask the complainer, "How does this make you feel?" and then, "How would you feel if you stopped caring and thinking about this?" Of course that only works for people who go to her and not for all of them.
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Jay Gilbert
Jay Gilbert  Thich Nhat Hahn used this technique in his monastery - two elder neutral monks would speak the positions for each party, and would "loop" the other party's claims. He called it "straw on the mud". (He sadly didn't use it with Arnie & Therese, though.)
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David Reich Chadwick Jay Gilbert That's interesting - and yep about Arnie and Therese. Got to watch out for the folks who are on a mission from god.
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Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer
Elizabeth Burgess Sawyer Tony Patchell
Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson I am, for all the labor, anguish and hand wringing that went into this most recent effort by ZCSF, I have to note how utterly unimpressed that I am at the moment and how little faith that I have in your capacity to remedy this situation. GOOD LUCK.
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Brooks Prouty
Brooks Prouty The letter is so contrived and painful to read. It sounds like some product of the Bolshi Revolution. Poor Comrad Brown.
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Laura Caplan
Laura Caplan My daughter was visiting and we decided to spend a special day together at Ed Brown‘s GGF sitting. Disappointed to find it was suddenly & suspiciously canceled. Thank you David for sharing this. I am truly saddened to learn the leadership is showing pettiness not in alignment with the teachings. (now I have also read their response, and it includes so many apologies for mistakes made that it surely shines light on the fact that yes, everyone makes mistakes.) Like others I hope this can be corrected and learning happen.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Laura, despite the apologies for mistakes made, I seriously doubt that ZCSF IS CAPABLE OF COMING UP WITH A TRULY HELPFUL CORRECTIVE.

Consider their short sighted first impulse and their initial reluctance to reconsider their position. This is NOT the error of an individual but reflects on the entire current leadership of the organization.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley I found this in the New York Times. I think it says a lot about the "religiously conservative" attitude at SFZC. It says "the fear center of the brain, the amygdala, is actually larger in conservatives than in liberals." The abbot has an enlarged amygdala! Poor guy! Pity! Fortunately for me my amygdala was disarmed when I was kicked by a horse. I thank that horse to this day!
NYT " . . . . the fear center of the brain, the amygdala, is actually larger in conservatives than in liberals. Conservatives, it turns out, react more strongly to physical threat than liberals do. In fact, their greater concern with physical safety seems to be determined early in life: In one University of California study, the more fear a 4-year-old showed in a laboratory situation, the more conservative his or her political attitudes were found to be 20 years later. Brain imaging studies have even shown that the fear center of the brain, the amygdala, is actually larger in conservatives than in liberals. And many other laboratory studies have found that when adult liberals experienced physical threat, their political and social attitudes became more conservative (temporarily, of course). But no one had ever turned conservatives into liberals."
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson These findings are highly consistent with research in early human/mammalian attachment and its direct bearing later in life on these individuals parenting styles.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Precisely! So when I judge people, I take that into account while remembering my own attachments.
Difficult practice!
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Renshin Bunce
Renshin Bunce Gene Foley With all due respect, whoever you are, it's bullshit for you to pass judgment on the Abbot's level of fear.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Renshin Bunce well...it is a well reasoned argument...though the argument may not be a perfect fit it does speak to the circular,insular, solipsistic reasoning that got the actual facts so wrong. Of course a tautology never hurt anyone...that is not until this group decided to act on their faulty reasoning without checking the facts first. Wow, sounds familiar!
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Renshin Bunce I was making a joke about my own amygdala and being kicked by a horse.Being fearless because of brain damage.
This is the kind of joke that got Ed removed.
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Renshin Bunce
Renshin Bunce Gene Foley "The abbot has an enlarged amygdala! Poor guy! Pity! "
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Renshin Bunce Ok When you take that out of context it does sound bad. Is the abbot a liberal?
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Renshin Bunce Is the abbot a liberal?
Tom White
Tom White Gene Foley Seems His Amygdala is working hard.
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Jennifer Wills Rode
Jennifer Wills Rode · 15 mutual friends
Renshin Bunce and who are you, to judge Gene Foley?
Whoever you are, it’s bullshit for you to pass judgement on anyone?
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Anéla Grama
Anéla Grama In Hawaii, where I was born, and at Koko_An where I first practiced zazen= there was an understanding of melding zen practice with Hawaiian philosophy called Ho'oponopono thus as a wise zen monk Dogen says like using the ho'oponopono = if you cannot find the truth right where you are, where ELSE do you EXPECT TO find it???
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Goodness...this suddenly sounds like a whole Bunce of vitriol to my ears.
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Larry Hansen
Larry Hansen “ I wouldn’t be a member of any club that would have me” Groucho
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Michael Papas
Michael Papas Gene Foley I think so.
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Sandi West Hunter
Sandi West Hunter WOW ...
Matt Jeschke
Matt Jeschke I am very grateful to San Francisco Zen Center for providing the conditions for the most revolutionary experiences of my life. Trying to do good is hard; we all make mistakes, I don't know the details of what happened here but I am not surprised that it is complicated, that people are hurt, and that good people are trying hard to find a useful way through. Good luck to all of us.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Going to ZC was like learning how to swim in cold water. Swimming in warm water is easy and pleasant. Cold water is dangerous. But if you avoid it, you will never be complete.
SFZC is a magical place with beautiful people. It is an enigma. Like life.
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Jennifer Wills Rode
Jennifer Wills Rode · 15 mutual friends
Gene Foley I love you!
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Joseph Bobrow
Joseph Bobrow Ed: you’ve made it to folk hero status.
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Linda Speel
Linda Speel Susan Rabideau
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Michael Minock
Michael Minock Ed brown should not be banned. Just because someone has their head up their ass, Wha, I'm offended! Get over it. Who's next. I'll bet every teacher has said something politically incorrect at one time or another. Are they going to band them all? But this coming from SFZC doesn't surprise me. They are the biggest babies on the block! And on the bad end of everything. This is what's wrong with American Buddhism!
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley My toxic neighbor is an American Buddhist. He knows everything.
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Michael Minock
Michael Minock Toxic?
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Four dimensions of narcissism as a personality variable have been delineated: leadership/authority, superiority/arrogance, self-absorption/self-admiration, and exploitativeness/entitlement.[5]

A 2012 book on power-hungry narcissists suggests that narcissists typically display most, and sometimes all, of the following traits:[6]

An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges
Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships
A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry, egosyntonic)
Difficulty with empathy
Problems distinguishing the self from others (see personal boundaries)
Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (see criticism psychopathology, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury)
Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt
Haughty body language
Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply)
Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse)
Using other people without considering the cost of doing so
Pretending to be more important than they actually are
Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements
Claiming to be an "expert" at many things
Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people
Denial of remorse and gratitude
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Michael Minock
Michael Minock WTF?
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley My toxic neighbor is a narcissist. He hides behind his Buddhist fantasy. When you say Buddhist, I am not impressed. Neuroplasticity can go either way.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Thinking mind does not solve this kind of problem.
The problem is in our heart.
Suzuki Roshi
8/5/71
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson I remember straining really hard the other night til I finally gave up and ate 3 boxes of Exlax ‘n chased it with 3 bowls on Maui Wowie, 2 back to back hours of Shikantaza and half a fifth of Jack Daniels: blew the whole god-damn outer rim of my anus CLEAN OFF AND HAD TO FISH MY STILL SMOKIN’ AMYGDALA OUT OF THE CAMODE!
Damn and a dipstdoodle but I do feel better now!
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Robert Anderson Try enemas. But not in the zendo.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley I just patented a new zafu design that includes a butt warmer, silent massage and a vaporizer. The vaporizer function has many modes, one being Ganja Sativa. Maui Wowie will be introduced soon.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Gene Foley a new method of blowing smoke up your ass...sounds like a variation on Kavanaugh’s method of beer bonging it up the butt!
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley My yoga teacher could suck water up his ass. Amazing!
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Gene Foley should I ask? Was there ever a problem with backwash?
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley He did it in a tree so backwash was not a concern.
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Jamie Avera
Jamie Avera It seems to me that, by definition, honest Zen instruction would be a "hostile environment."
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Liz Wolf-Spada
Liz Wolf-Spada Suzuki Roshi never made it hostile.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Clearly the Abbots SFZC letter mischaracterizes the diverse commentary on the part of people commenting on this thread. Some voices may indeed reflect anger and hurt etc...not “all”.

Their response so far is nothing short of self justifying, defensive and disingenuous. This is simply disgusting behavior on their parts.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley disingenuous

dishonest, unfair, deceitful, false, artful, crooked, cunning, designing, duplicitous, feigned, foxy, indirect, insidious, mendacious, oblique, shifty, sly, tricky, two-faced, underhanded
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Disgusting behavior? Explain please.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Sewing deviciveness, scapegoating family members, “non acknowledgement” of ones part in constructing double bind communications (see Gregory Bateson)...all contribute to psychopathology with in any given family system. The pathology within the system is supported in varying degrees by ALL MEMBERS of that system. This certainly applies to Ed AND THE ZCSF LEADERSHIP. The most entrenched part of this problem lies in the non-acknowledgement of ZCSF WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR OWN COMMUNICATIONS.

The parties to all of this difficulty are unlikely to resolve this problem. I’d recommend getting outside help: Avoid Organizational Psychologists...go hire a couple of very senior family systems therapists from the Family Therapy Institute in Berkeley! There must be a lot more bullshit going on with ZCSF than the Ed Brown thing!
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Eunsahn Citta
Eunsahn Citta How about we put it all downall bake some bread.
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/30/magazine/flour-power.html

NYTIMES.COM
Flour Power
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Florian Brody
Florian Brody The precepts will clearly show the way: Invite Edward Espe Brown back to a special event that emphasizes diversity and openness to different opinions and ways of being. Yes, it is hard, yes it is much easier to give in to 2018-style uptightness about bodily functions. Dale Wright in his book on Enlightenment https://www.amazon.com/What-Buddhist.../dp/0190622598 explains much more competent how a teacher needs to go beyond the commonly accepted. --- Edward is the only one who understands how to teach the children's program - with puppets not with reading a text hoping this part is over soon –– You cannot bake bread without a pretty disgusting ingredient ... no sour no dough

AMAZON.COM
What Is Buddhist Enlightenment?
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Sandi West Hunter
Sandi West Hunter Very sad for all.
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Lenette Viegas
Lenette Viegas I’ve been following this thread and aside from agreeing with most of the aforementioned comments, I was curious as to whether or not the complainant was provided with a copy of audio excerpts of Ed’s talk. Not quite sure how one would go about this as it could be considered borderline abusive if this person feels traumatized. My reason for asking is because of my own experience listening to the recordings. At one point Ed referred to people “jumping off the bridge” . Can’t recall the exact reference off hand. This is a sensitive area for me, as I have lost friends and children of friends to suicide from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. So when I initially heard Ed’s comment, I cringed and felt a bit uneasy. Yet, having been abused physically and sexually, I could hear no relevance to the accusations made against Ed and tend to concur with his daughter’s statement, although I have never met Ed and know nothing about him. I decided to go back and re-listen to his bridge jumping comment and realized my issue was with me, there was nothing inappropriate or offensive with his comment. The person complaining was obviously in a sensitive and defensive state of mind during this session and was there in need of healing, I believe this person concluded she truly heard what she stated in her letter and not because she had her head up her ass. She might reconsider the accusations if she had the chance to listen again in what she feels is a more familiar/safer environment and re-evaluate her conclusions. I’m not familiar with all involved and know very little about SFZC or its politics. Seems like a poorly handled and sad situation for all. I enjoyed listening to Ed’s lecture in the excerpts David provided and listened several times. It’s too bad they weren’t heard before making such a harsh decision to ban Ed. Thanks, David.
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Maia Duerr
Maia Duerr maybe it's time for all of us to stop, take a breath, and return to the cushion....
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley Without Ed of course.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Yeah Maia ‘everybody...(sigh) can’t we all just get along...can’t we just drop the murmurings of dissent ‘n acquiesce... can we simply appropriate the trappings of zazen...repurpose it in support of ZCSF leadership and allow “big mind” work as our
“load star”***+ .......can’t we just trust the Buddha Way...’??? SOUND FAMILIAR? IT SHOULD!
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Maia Duerr
Maia Duerr Robert Anderson that ain't what i'm saying.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson ***+ A FITTING WORD FROM MIKE PENCE:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lodestar
EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG
Lodestar - Wikipedia
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson ***+ SOME ADDITIONAL WORDS FROM THE MIKE PENCE DOPPELGÄNGER (OR AS SFZC LEADERSHIP MIGHT HAVE IT):
“...CRALL OVER HERE AND KISS MY FOOT...”
::
:: https://youtu.be/WmTs5bF0-mQ

YOUTUBE.COM
James Bond From Russia With Love Train Fight
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Maia Duerr I don’t know you but in the past, under Baker the words that you just spouted were the same as Baker’s whenever there were grumblings among “lower echelons” of zen students. MIKE PENCE IS A FITTING TROPE WHEN IT COMES TO PLACATING THE MASSES VIA THE APPEAL TO MINDFUL CALM (Is the PENCE **loadstar the same as the Buddha’s northstar?) BUT, CLEARLY THE PENCE DOPPELGÄNGER APPEARS TO SPEAK THE UNDERLYING TRUTH AS TO WHAT THE REAL ALTITUDE OF SFZC LEADERSHIP SEEMS TO BE...

Ed..........

“...CRAWL OVER HERE AND KISS MY FOOT...”
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Maia Duerr
Maia Duerr yep Robert, you're right... you don't know me. may we all be free from suffering. best to you.
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Maia Duerr and good luck to you.
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Myo Denis Lahey
Myo Denis Lahey Ugh...
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Kai Harper Leah
Kai Harper Leah Really? Who feels that they have the right to judge? Ed has contributed so, so much to ZC. Doesn't he deserve more than this?
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Robert Anderson
Robert Anderson Simple answer: yep!
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Peter Levitt
Peter Levitt i've said it elsewhere so why not here? this whole thing just makes me deeply sad. to those in our lineage who are involved in any way, including everyone: we can do better, all the way around, and we should. thus far, in my view, we have lost our way.
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley I agree. But then. But then . . . . . ... !
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Gene Foley
Gene Foley As SFZC stands on its own ground, and Suzuki Roshi stands on the same ground as Dogen, what does this have to do with Chan Buddhism from which this all arises?
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Robyn Ellenbogen
Robyn Ellenbogen I just don’t get it🙁
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Abijah Crabtree
Abijah Crabtree Perfect example of why i left "the left" and SFZC! Ed Brown is a great teacher, and people are way too susceptible to outrage and virtue signaling. 😢
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Loring Palmer
Loring Palmer "Dreams are real while they last. Can we say more of life?" ---Havelock Ellis, LUCID DREAMING: a concise guide to awakening in your dreams and in your life." Life/the Origen Point (Shiva-Shakti, Krishna, Buddha, choose your energy source) presents us with the needed lessons so when we awaken from this dream we can get off the wheel and emerge into advanced adventures, unless you wish to remain a samsarin. Ed is a catalyst--a brilliant disrupter to stir the pot and wake us up. Ed, old buddy, I bow deeply to you. My 2 cents worth. 🙏
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Richard Normand
Richard Normand 100,000 prostrations on Page St., along with a 100,000 recitations of the repentance gatha will absolve him of his politically incorrect actions.
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